Knowing Your Worth, Entrepreneurship & Negotiation [Podcast Interview with Helen Ngo]

I am so honored to have shared my insights on the importance of knowing your worth, communicating your corporate values, and the fear surrounding entrepreneurship with Certified Financial Planner, Helen Ngo, on the Live & Earn Podcast.

In the podcast interview we discuss:
– How sometimes getting a ‘no’ feels better than not asking at all
– The impact of establishing corporate values and culture with your team
– The fear surrounding entrepreneurship and how it never really goes away but changes
– Why taking care of ourselves first needs to stay a top priority
– The misconception that focusing on money means you aren’t doing good

Read the full transcript here:

Helen: “When I am able to take care of myself, I am able to do my best work, to show up for my clients”. That’s a line from our guest today, Ashley Pare. She’s the CEO and Founder of Own Your Worth, an organization on a mission to break glass ceilings. With her background in human resources, she’s got that insider knowledge to coach clients to feel more confident, make an impact, and earn more. Her clients have negotiated $35,000 promotions and some even started their own businesses. Here’s Ashley.

Helen: Ashley, thank you so much for joining me in the studio today.

Ashley: Thanks for having me, Helen.

Helen: Well, I am so excited to interview you and again, I really appreciate you coming in to talk with us about your business and how you got started. And I invited you on the show because first of all, I love the name Own Your Worth. So just to kick things off, tell us more about how you decided to start your own business and call it Own Your Worth and exactly what does that mean?

Ashley: Yes. Well, I kind of stumbled into the world of entrepreneurship and started Own Your Worth because that’s, at the time in my life, what I was really learning in terms of my big life lesson and realized that it was something that really resonated with a lot of people, a lot of women. And so I wanted to kind of create this movement and opportunity for not only myself but also women in business to own their worth, to show up in their power, to make a difference, to earn great money, and to really be recognized for the work that they do. So Own Your Worth, it’s kind of literal and-

Helen: Figurative.

Ashley: Not literal. Yes, figurative, thank you. … statement because I’m a negotiation coach and leadership coach for women, so help women negotiate your raises internally within corporate or setting their rates within their business. But then it’s also deeper than that, really working with clients to shift their relationship with money, heal their own relationship with being in power and speaking their truth, and then also working with organizations on how to create equal fair pay policies that really attract great talent.

Ashley: So it means a bunch of things but my focus right now is working with motivated women in business and also what I call enlightened organizations that are really looking to support their leaders, either through executive coaching or offering training and workshops around money, career advancement, feedback, whatever it might be.

Helen: I mean it’s hard to … because to me, when I hear the word worth I’m thinking like I’m worth a lot. Nobody will ever be able to afford me.

Ashley: Yes, I love that.

Helen: As a business owner myself and I have a financial planning business and when I approach my clients or potential clients, I have to throw a number out there. “This is the price that you pay Mister and Missus Client but this is the value that you’re going to get.” So Ashley, your work, do you help with that? I’m just trying to get a better understanding of the negotiation part of what you help business owners like myself do.

Ashley: Yes. It’s great that you pointed out the difference, right between worth and value and that’s where a lot of my work kind of resides with business owners because the society runs around and on money and so we have to define a price per se for the services or products that we offer. But I believe that we’re all inherently worthy. As you said, there’s nothing that we couldn’t have if we set our mind to it in terms of abundance.

Ashley: So I really help business owners shift from that lack mindset to an abundance mindset, really healing their relationship with money and untangling their self worth from either what they’re earning in their business, what they’re charging clients right. So it’s finding this healthy detachment from, “Okay, here’s my products and service. I feel comfortable with that because it’s going to allow me to show up and give and serve in a way that I don’t have to think about money anymore. That I’m able to do my job, that I’m able to serve.” And then also, “I’m very clear with the outcomes that I offer.” Right? The either transformation, the financial outcome, the business process improvement, whatever it might be. So having that clear distinction between value and putting a price tag on it doesn’t have anything to do with how worthy we are as a human being.

Helen: Exactly. And I like that you use the term detachment because I think when I’m working with small business owners to develop their business plan and come up with a pricing model for their services, for example, it’s hard to convince them to say you need to charge more. Otherwise it’s not going to be sustainable in the long run, right, for your business. And really, again, I love that you emphasize the word detachment. It’s like look, that’s just a number but it has nothing to do with how worthy you are as a person. That’s how I understood what you just said.

Ashley: Yeah. Yeah and that’s kind of the process I go through with my clients as well is we look at the value provided, right. We don’t put the price tag on anything until they’re very clear about either the impact they’ve made, really giving them the opportunity to pause and reflect on what does my business do, how do I serve, how have I changed peoples lives, how do I make an impact. And once they are clear on their value, they can easily then dive into that market research to see, well what would be considered reasonable? How do I want to charge? Do I want to be ahead of the market, within the market? But it really starts with that value piece first, I think.

Helen: And in your line of work, I notice you use a lot of the word clarity and confidence and I love those nailing words. Do you teach that clarity has to come before confidence or vice versa? Or can they happen simultaneously?

Ashley: I think they can definitely happen simultaneously but I find the more clear we get, myself personally and also with my clients, the more clear we are with what we want in our life, what we want in our business and why, we start stepping into our confidence more easily. Because I think confidence is built through taking courageous action and constantly putting ourself out there in new ways. And I find that sometimes it’s easier and takes the edge off of doing something brand new and outside of our comfort zone, if we’re clear on why we’re doing it or why we’re trying something or if we have that longterm vision or even a revenue goal, whatever might motivate somebody.

Ashley: So they go hand in hand but really what I see is so many of us hear through society, through blogs, through just everything being thrown at us that there’s a certain way to do a certain thing. There’s a certain way to start a business. There’s a certain way to grow a business, right. You need an email list. You need this. You need that. But I don’t believe that there’s this one way or a cookie cutter way. And so I’ll help my clients dissect what’s right for them, what gives them energy versus drains them of energy in their business, where do they want to spend their time and their money and their investments? So it’s really again, getting that clarity and that helps them show up more confidently when they talk to clients, when they’re creating a new product, whatever it might be.

Helen: All those things that you mentioned about setting up an email list and the marketing plan, those to me are what I would consider tactical things. And the clarity piece, personally in building my business and what’s really helped is defining exactly what I want from the business. And even that comes down to determining how much money I want to make at the end of the year or over the next five years, right and then breaking it down to how many new clients we have to get in order to get there. So in knowing that, for me, the confidence just follows.

Ashley: Yeah. Right because that becomes your plan.

Helen: Yeah.

Ashley: You can take action against that versus just shooting in the dark.

Helen: Right. And now you know how many people you need to get on your email list and the conversion rates and blah, blah, blah, blah.

Ashley: Yeah. You have a plan.

Helen: Yeah. And I like that you mentioned there’s no cookie cutter way of running a business. So if you don’t mind sharing, even in the early stages of your business looking back, what has been one thing that you’re most proud of doing at the launch of your business?

Ashley: For me, really just getting started right. I remember just booking my very first coaching client and I didn’t know what I was doing in terms like I’d never run a business before but I just showed up and I served. So for me, it was speaking about something that I was completely passionate about and didn’t want other women to feel the way I did within corporate. So giving myself permission just to stand up and seek my truth, that’s what I’m really most proud of at the beginning because I was living in fear for a long time and I finally stood up and realized that it resonated with people. And so I just kind of followed, organically it unfolded. I would have lines of women waiting to speak with me after my speaking events and workshops and it kind of just hit me.

Ashley: So I’m proud of that and also I think it was important for me to recognize that I had a potential business in front of me and I really started thinking about, okay what do I want to create with this, if anything? How can I turn this into a sustainable business versus just something I do on the side as a passion project? I really recognized that there was something there and I wanted to build it as a business. So I kind of owned it from the beginning that hey, this is something and it’s not just my passion project or a side hustle or this thing that … I said, “Nope. This is something I’m willing to go after and build, even if I fail.”

Helen: And you said even if you failed. What would that look like? Like not making any money in the business? How did you define that?

Ashley: Yes. I realize that one other thing that I did that I think was the most important investment in myself and my business and I’ve always been a big proponent of my own work, whether it’s through therapy or working with coaches or just my meditation practice that I’ve tried most things in order to grow myself. And so hiring my business coach was by far the biggest, best decision I made to get my business off the ground because I didn’t know what I was doing and I realized that I do need support here and I don’t have to do this alone and I want to be successful quickly.

Ashley: So through hiring my coach, I realized that my biggest fear was that I would blow through all of our savings. My husband and I would have to sell our condo. We’d have to move in with his parents and that he might leave me. So that was my kind of staircase of fear that I went down and realized that’s what was holding me back from quitting my corporate job to run my business full time. And once I realized that, I was able to have a conversation with my husband and decided you know what? Even if that were to happen, I would regret it if I never tried. So he and I came to an agreement and that’s all I needed to take the leap.

Ashley: But my fear or the failure for me would have been-

Helen: All those things.

Ashley: Not making it. All those things and ultimately I think losing the love of my life because I made a decision about my career.

Helen: So looking back though and you kind of hit the nail on the head, you know you would regret it if you didn’t do it. Did that fear of not doing it and regret it overcome or was that fear larger than the fear of not making any money, losing your husband, and all that?

Ashley: For me, I’ve always tried to live my life like would I regret not doing this versus would I regret doing it. So I’ve always been a big action taker and following my dreams and once I make the decision, I’m kind of just all in. So although I had those fears, I’m glad I was able to identify them and let them go sooner rather than later. So for me it was just about, I have to do this. It was something that was so clear, even if I was scared, even if I wasn’t sure how, I was willing to step into the unknown to try it.

Helen: I love that. Do you mind sharing how long it took you to resolve that mentality?

Ashley: I mean honestly, it still creeps up for me, right.

Helen: Yeah.

Ashley: I’m constantly overcoming fears in waves because as my business grows and as I reach new height and hurdles, I still have that nagging fear from time to time like, “Well what if this doesn’t work?” It has progressed, I would say, or changed or shifted into well what if you can’t keep this up?

Helen: Yes.

Ashley: You know, what if the new thing you try fails this time even though you’ve had X, Y, Z success. So I think it’s still around but I’m more aware of it and again, it doesn’t prevent me from taking action. It just really is a great indicator for me that I need to pause and understand what am I nervous about? What is the fear and is it something that … I’m just thinking of as I do more work with corporations, I’ve had to really think through, is this where I want to go? Is this where I want to take my business? What does success look like there? And so any fears that come up, I like to identify is it that it’s not in alignment with what I want to do in my business or am I just afraid that it might not work? That’s how I kind of navigate it now.

Helen: I don’t think any type of fear is ever going to go away as a business owner or just in life in general. I think your fear evolves and you redefine what failure is, right.

Ashley: Yeah.

Helen: Because the fear of not making any money, I think that’s on everybody’s mind when they start off their business. I mean it’s really scary. It’s like, oh well that’s why a lot of people don’t take the leap like you did and stay within their corporate jobs and continuing on that path and never make that leap to entrepreneurship if that’s really what they want to do. Amen to you for starting your own business. It is hard. It’s not an easy conversation to have with your partner either.

Ashley: No.

Helen: You know? It’s like, well you’re making decent money. Why do that and take the risk?

Ashley: Yes, yes.

Helen: Yeah.

Ashley: And it’s harder to have those conversations with people who are not inherently risk takers, right. I think I’ve always been someone who’s more comfortable with risk but as I’ve grown in my own partnership, I’ve had to realize not everyone is like me and identifying other people’s risk tolerance is different than mine. And that goes with clients as well, so there’s always that back and forth of what we’re willing to take on as risk but also if we’re in that partnership or if we have with family or whatever it might be, we can try to balance it. For me it was about, again, listening to my truth, what I needed at that time.

Helen: Yeah and then overcoming the fear of having to have those conversations with your spouse about it.

Ashley: Yes. Yes, yes, yes.

Helen: And do those conversations still evolve? I’m assuming he’s more understanding and being like, “Okay, she’s got this.”

Ashley: Yeah, for sure. I don’t remember how far, maybe a year or so in I was noticing that because I had left my corporate job, my relationship with my money for the first time in my career had shifted, right. Because I didn’t know what would be coming in for sure and I started questioning and doubting, do I spend money on this? Do I have to ask him if I can spend money on this? And that, for me, became so stressful that I sat down with him again and said, “Do you trust me? Can we come to an agreement here around I will make business decisions with money for right now.”

Ashley: I needed his support to allow me to start making business decisions for my business versus going to him to say, “Can I do this?” And since I had that conversation, it’s been amazing both for me and for him because we don’t have to have that conversation every single time I need to do something within my business to spend money. So yeah, there’s a lot more balance now in just trust on both our parts and that gave me the confidence really to start making decisions for the business, separately from, is this good fro me and my husband.

Helen: Ashley, I’m so proud of you for admitting that because a lot of people don’t talk about their partners and I think if you are in a relationship and are about to get married or have a spouse, a husband or a wife, it plays a crucial part in your success.

Ashley: Yeah.

Helen: I think and it’s not like you’re asking your husband for permission to do something. It’s more about having the confidence to communicate, “Look, if I don’t do this, my identity’s going to be out the window.”

Ashley: Yeah.

Helen: And that’s how I feel or felt when I approached my husband when I started the business, so I can relate to you in regards to that and it evolves. You know, the relationship evolves and it’s fascinating to me. That’s all.

Ashley: Yeah. Yeah. And Helen, I mean honestly, this is where I spent a lot of time, again, with clients, with women who either want to start their business or who have started their business and really it comes down to even their investment in coaching. I spend a lot of time coaching women, right, to be able to make this decision for themselves because where many of us are givers, we’ve learned and we’re raised to have certain relationships with how we spend money, not spending money. Are we savers? Why? So it comes up over and over again where I support my clients in having these tough conversations with their partners because many of us don’t and it can be a way that we hold ourselves back, right.

Ashley: Again, it’s either a fear of asking your boss, a fear of asking your partner to go after it and to have the life that you want. I do see that as a space where women get stuck from making the decision that might be best for them because they are considering everyone else’s needs versus just having that conversation and getting some, again, clarity around that.

Helen: Yeah. I think the risk of feeling rejected, that your business idea isn’t going to work or that’s not the route for you by your spouse is hurtful.

Ashley: Yeah.

Helen: Yeah. I can see how it can be so limiting and I still feel that some days where I hope my husband is proud of me. That’s what I think. And it’s not like I need his validation but it’s nice. I mean the worst thing I think is you work hard all day long and then you come home and the last thing you want to deal with is a non-supportive spouse.

Ashley: Yeah. Absolutely.

Helen: So I’m glad you brought that up and I greatly appreciate it. So speaking of failure. Do you have a favorite failure that set you back or set you up for later success that you’re like, “You know what, that’s my favorite one,” looking back?

Ashley: Yes and it’s really the reason I have my business today. So I’m super grateful for it now but I was working in corporate and I worked in HR, human resources. So I had access to salary data of all levels very early on in my career and I think that served me really well up until a point. And so I was at this place where I wanted more recognition. I wanted more pay. I was taking on more and more responsibility but I didn’t know how to ask for it and so I waited and stayed silent and that’s not typically me.

Ashley: But over time, I built up more frustration and resentment and even sadness within myself and also just with the organization. And finally, when I finally spoke up and asked for a raise because I was being recruited by another company the answer was no and it was heartbreaking and crushing because at the time that job was such a huge part of my life and my identity, to be honest, and it just felt like I was hearing, “Ashley, you’re not good enough.” Versus having this conversation about my career and finances and equal pay.

Ashley: So that whole hearing no and failure around asking for a raise really led me down this self discovery path to realize I wanted to do coaching and start a business and to leave corporate and to again, create program systems, opportunities for companies and people to do better at their job, the way that we treat employees, for business owners who want to make a big impact and really change the world. So that’s my biggest and I guess the failure I’m most proud of because it was really the catalyst for so much change in my life and I’ve done a lot of, again, self work around owning my world and really detaching it from the outcome, right. What happens in my life around me and not really looking for a specific thing to prove that I’m worthy of whatever it is I want or feel.

Helen: Yeah. So I work with a lot of business owners and a lot of those who are listening to this show are business owners. We are employers. We’re the ones who started the business just like yourself and in a role of hiring now and being the one in control of giving somebody a raise.

Ashley: Yeah.

Helen: How do you do it from an employer standpoint convey to your associate or employee that, “Look, I can’t give you a raise.” Maybe that no was, “I can’t give you a raise because I can’t afford to?

Ashley: Yes. So the the why of … So I encourage clients on all to go for no, right. Getting a no means okay, you’ve hit an edge and you can explore that. It doesn’t leave you wondering, “Okay, was there more here? Is everyone satisfied?” So from a business owner or an employer standpoint, if you are clear with your budget, with what you are willing to pay for a specific role and why. If you have a defined, let’s say, job description, if you can explain to an employee where you currently are, what your goal or plan might be, why you’re not able to offer X amount of money, a lot of people want to understand why when they hear no. And often, where we on the employee side might be afraid to ask and we take it personally.

Ashley: so many of my clients who have either negotiated with a business or a vendor, if they ask for everything they want and they hear no, they almost always feel so much better than if they hadn’t asked at all.

Helen: Yeah.

Ashley: So from the employer standpoint, it’s just really important to have a business reason that’s not personal or based on gender or based on any other … somebody’s personality, whatever it might be. So if it’s a business reason, I think most people will understand that and then it’s up to them to decide if they will agree or not. It’s, from an employer standpoint, where we either don’t share information or we don’t apply the same standards across the board. Sometimes it’s hard when we’re first starting. But again, it goes back to that clarity, I think.

Ashley: As the employer, it’s just being honest and upfront and having a real conversation. These conversations aren’t easy, right when we talk about money, business owners are people too. We all have our relationship with money and I think most people just really appreciate understanding why.

Helen: I’ve been so removed from corporate life, I haven’t asked somebody for a raise in so long. I’ve only done that once in my entire career and I got a now and then I decided to start my own business. I was like, “Screw you. I can do this better.” That’s how I felt in a nutshell at the time.

Ashley: Yeah.

Helen: And so now I’m in the position of I have employees and I want to hire on more and I want to be able to help them and create a culture of I want my employees to appreciate me by giving them more money. But I can’t afford to right now and I don’t know how to express that or convey that or if it’s even necessary at all and you’re saying that it is.

Ashley: Well, yeah. In an ideal world, you will have your corporate values, whatever they may be and you’ll be able to say, “Okay, these are the positions I’m hiring for. This is who I’m looking for. This is how we operate from a business standpoint.” Right, “Not only how we treat each other but how we treat our clients. The mission behind what we do.” And really, those values help you from an organization standpoint make decisions and solve problems and conflicts within the business. Let’s just say, if you’re in startup mode or growth mode, one of your values may be wearing multiple hats, right. Just all hands on deck, taking action, rolling up your sleeve.

Ashley: And so you can have a conversation around this is where I am in my business. This is what I value and this is what I’m able to offer in terms of opportunity and pay. And so it’s just having that conversation. You don’t have to say, “I can’t afford blah, blah, blah.” But instead, say, “This is the opportunity. This is where I’m looking to take the business. This is where I need someone with you talents and support. Is this something you’re interested in? Would this be a fit?”

Helen: Yeah.

Ashley: Just kind of owning where you are.

Helen: Yeah. It sounds to me like it’s being able to convey to your employees no for now but it’s not forever.

Ashley: Yeah.

Helen: Some of your other options and really conveying that you value them as an employee.

Ashley: Yes. And it may not always be about money. There might be something else that you can offer the employee that would be just as beneficial. And again, looking back at my own career, I wanted more recognition. I wanted more responsibility. I wanted more opportunities to grow and to lead and to be front and center and to be making decisions and running strategy. But what I knew how to ask for was a raise and promotion. So you can get to the root issue of saying, “Well, what would be helpful? If I can’t offer you this, what else would be valuable to you? Do you want more experience over here?” Whatever it might be. So again, understanding how you can come to an agreement where you both feel, as you said, valued.

Helen: And Ashley, as a business owner now, how do you decide when to give yourself a raise?

Ashley: That’s a good question. When I was thinking about just looking back on my business and things I’m proud of and things I regretted, I really don’t have regrets in my life but this is something I’ve struggled with in my business was just paying myself and we hear this advice all the time, “Pay yourself first.” And I didn’t really know really what that meant. So that’s a good question. I haven’t honestly thought about it.

Helen: That’s okay. Yeah.

Ashley: Yeah.

Helen: Yeah. I ask myself that every day.

Ashley: I mean I started paying myself, so that’s great. And I think I’ll add that into my plan for 2020. I like that question.

Helen: It’s hard. As a business owner it’s like, “Okay, I need to pump money into the business, reinvest in the business, grow it but when am I going to pay myself? When am I going to give myself a raise?”

Ashley: Yeah.

Helen: And making that economic decision, right. But from a tax planning standpoint, there are certain triggers to that but it’s really asking like, “I want to make more. I want to take more home for my personal life.”

Ashley: Yeah.

Helen: When does that happen?

Ashley: Yeah. So part of it is just saying that that’s what you want and claiming it and saying, “Okay, I’m going to do it.” And set that goal. Like yourself, I create annual revenue goals for my business and so I think just stating that you want to do that, it again shows that you value yourself. You know, I believe money is energy and it’s about giving and receiving and I didn’t start a business so that way I could constantly feel in that struggle mode and hustle mode.

Helen: Right.

Ashley: And I think when I am taken care of then I’m able to do my best work and really it shows in my energy and the clients I’m able to work with. So I think it’s, again, going back to the reason why maybe you’re not paying yourself or not giving yourself a raise and looking at that reason why. It’s not always about how because I think we’re all very smart and resilient and if we really wanted to we would figure out how. Often it’s about why. Why aren’t we taking care of ourself?

Helen: Yes. I struggle with that all the time. And just to wrap things up, what is it in your career and in your profession in working with different clients, are there any cliché pieces of advice that maybe some of your coaching clients come to you from another coach who you’re like, “You know what? That’s really terrible advice”?

Ashley: Yeah. So somebody gave me advice when I was starting my business. Actually, I’ve heard this several times that women don’t invest in themselves. Women don’t pay. I wouldn’t be able to have a business of coaching female clients and I do work with men as well but because women just don’t pay. We’re traditionally bad with money and so that piece of advice, it scared me at first but then I just completely tossed it out the window and it’s not been true at all in my experience. And so I think from a business owner perspective, especially as women, we do have to give ourselves permission to invest in ourself, to talk about money, to pay ourselves as we were talking about, and to really owning the fact that we do great work.

Ashley: And so just this advice that some people will say, focus on being liked or appreciated over being respected. And I kind of have the opposite perspective of you have to respect yourself. Yes, you can be kind and compassionate and have empathy but at the end of the day, we need to set our boundaries around how we show up as business I guess the short version of that is just talk about money. Don’t be afraid to not talk about it either with your friends, a group of other CEOs, with your clients, your employees, whoever it might be. And trust that as women we are more than capable of creating very successful and thriving and profitable businesses.

Helen: You know, I 100% agree with you and not because I manage money for a living and the environment that I ‘grew up’ in in my career. So I started out my career as a stock broker and I worked around a bunch of guys. And it’s so interesting the dynamics of how men talk about money with each other and they give each other a pat on the back. whereas when women, what I’ve noticed is when we talk about money with each other, wanting to make more money, or the amount of money that we’re making, we’re almost shamed for speaking about it out loud or it sounds like we’re bragging. Whereas with the dudes, they pat each other on the backs like, “Yeah man. Go get those six figures.”

Ashley: Yes.

Helen: So I have no clue what the answer to this is but how do we resolve that with women? How can more women be more uplifting and supporting of each other in wanting to make more money? How can we make that dialog seem more approachable? And I’m not saying that we should be like a man but you know, it’s a matter of how can we make those dialogs more approachable is the best word I can find.

Ashley: Yeah, this is a biggie, right. It’s a tough one to unpack because it’s so personally nuanced and then also built into our culture but I think a big one is giving ourselves permission to talk about it, first of all with ourself and then with people that we trust. Starting off just small. “Hey, how do you manage your books? Or how do you decide what you charge? How are you deciding what you’re putting into your retirement? Are you even doing that? Or whatever it might be and asking other people how they handle finances”.

Ashley: But I think it’s letting go of this guilt, right or this belief that money is evil or because we want money, it means something negative about us. Like I’m driven to make money because I want to give back as much as I can. I want to, yes, have a beautiful life for myself and my family but at the end of the day, if I think about it, if I have multi millions and money to spare and hopefully even before that, I want to start a foundation for young women. I would speak all the time for free and there’s all these things that I would want to do. So I think that if we can tie in how money is able to afford us the life and the opportunities and the ability to serve, to give, that’s what really lights many of us up. I think it’s a good way to let go of the guilt we have around … I was just going to say being focused on money but that might even be a piece to the puzzle. Right, we think again if we’re focused on money it means something negative but that’s not true.

Helen: Right. It absolutely is not true. It doesn’t mean that we’re greedy. I think to me, Ashley, you have to make money in order to serve your clients.

Ashley: Yes.

Helen: If your business wasn’t making any money it would fail. That’s just the matter of the game and the weird predicament that we’re in, right. Like the bottom line matters at the end of the day. As a business owner, as a CEO you’ve got to make sure the money is coming in. Is it cashflow positive?

Ashley: Yeah.

Helen: And I can easily talk about it because I deal with it on a regular daily basis and it’s my job and that’s why I love the work that you do is owning your worth and being able to help others, particularly women, convey their worth and actually putting a price tag on it, quantitatively, and really going for it. So Ashley, just to wrap things up, where can people find you? What type of clients are you currently looking for right now?

Ashley: Yeah. So my website is probably the best place to get in touch with me, which is or people can also, if you’re listening, feel free to email me directly if they want to get in touch and my email address is Ashley A-S-H-L-E-Y at And I am looking to work with CEOs. So business owners who are wanting to grow their company, who maybe have questions around either their business structure, their pay, their fees, or hiring employees. With my HR background, I help a lot of growing businesses create those values that we discussed and a culture and people management processes that can serve their business as they grow because I think having great help and support makes all the difference when you are a leader trying to grow a really wonderful business.

Ashley: So I’m always happy to get connected with CEOs and women who are ready and motivated to shift their relationship with money and do their great work in the world.

Helen: Ashley, keep doing what you’re doing, keep speaking your mind, and again, thank you so much for joining me today on the show.

Ashley: Thank you so much for having me. It was wonderful.

Helen: Thank you so much for tuning in today. If you want more of our show, find us on Instagram at Made Modern Money. Also, be sure to visit our website at and sign up for our self-made CEOs club. Membership is completely free. And lastly, if you’re loving the show, please give us a nice rating on iTunes. It would really help push our podcast forward so that we can share with even more listeners. And remember this, real success stories aren’t born. We’re made.